Minute of the Workshop for Civil Party Applicants Representatives in Case 002

Welcome Remarks by THUN Saray, ADHOC President:

I would like to pay my respect to Judge Marcel Lemonde, Dr. Andreas Selmeci, Dr. Helen Jarvis, to Representatives of Embassies, and to lawyers, both national and international, as well as to national compatriots, particularly the representatives of the Civil Party Applicants Representative in Case 002.

This workshop is an opportunity to meet representatives of those who file applications as Civil Party (CP) in four regions of the Cambodia, the representatives of Victim Associations, and representative of the ECCC. It is also an opportunity for the CP representatives to meet with their lawyers, to ask questions on the ongoing of the Trial, particularly in Case 002. How many CP applicants will be admitted? How many of them will become simple complainants? To clarify these questions, Judge Marcel Lemonde, Co- Investigating Judges from ECCC, and other representatives from ECCC will give clarifications on the upcoming proceedings. CP Applicants Representative meetings have been organized within 4 regions to enable applicants to meet or seek lawyers. ADHOC will continue to provide opportunity for CP Applicants to meet their lawyers and to select their representatives (they are 160 now in total).

Even if the proceeding of the ECCC to accept applications goes faster, these groups are important as there are many applicants. I can foresee the challenge to remain in contact with them without any representatives at the district level. ADHOC will no longer have staff in these areas so this process will make it easy for them to meet their representatives. We can maintain contact with members of association; they will be able to meet their lawyers, or the Victims Unit, in the future. Before, applicants were scattered everywhere in Cambodia, it was difficult to disseminate info: by selecting representatives at the district level it’s easier, and it’s also easier for the Victims Unit and Co-Lawyers.

Thank you for being here. I am the representative of DED, a Development Agency of the German Government. One of our programs is about Justice and Reconciliation in Cambodia, and especially dissemination of information about KRT. I have known ADHOC for three years. ADHOC understands the scale and impact of the KR regime on the survivors.

I would like to thank the CP and those who have applied, and also the complainants. CP applicants have been affected and some have been traumatized by inhuman acts, some have lost their relatives. At the end, there would be substantial avoid of reparation: only moral and collective reparation, not financial. But there will be some kind of collective reparation to provide a symbolic compensation. CPs and Complainants must work with NGOs and Co-Lawyers. I thank the Co-Lawyers and those NGOs who have supported the CPs in Case 001. They had some difficulties to attend the proceedings in Phnom Penh. The Victim Unit and Dr. Helen Jarvis, do not have enough power to support CPs. My thanks to Investigating Judges and Judge Marcel Lemonde: he is a neutral and impartial judge. He listens to Co-Lawyers of Defense and to CPs. He spends his invaluable time to participate in your gatherings to listen to what CPs and victims have to say. This is an opportunity for him to hear directly from the victims.

Latt Ky, ADHOC, moderator: I would like to let you know that these participants today are CP Applicants for Case 002, they never had previous experience in participation in court proceedings. I am honored to welcome the Panel Speakers, especially Judge Marcel Lemonde, Co-Investigating Judges of the ECCC, Dr. Helen Jarvis, President of Victim Support Section, Dr. Andreas Selmeci, Coordinator of the Civil Peace Service of DED, Mr. Long Panhavuth, Program Officer of OSI, and Mr. Oeung Jeudy, Program Officer of CHRAC. To continue with this session, I would like to introduce to Judge Marchel Lemonde.

I am happy to be here because this court is connected to Cambodian people. This trial would make no sense abroad with foreign judges applying foreign laws. The usefulness of this trial lies only in the link with this country. I try as often as I can to participate in this kind of Forum. We are in a busy period: we are ending investigation in Case 002.

I am happy to clarify a number of issues, to reassure you, to explain our efforts to achieve our mandate. Some say that Co-Investigating Judges have reduced the scope of investigation but it’s not a correct way of explaining the situation. Co-Prosecutors have to decide which crimes are prosecute and investigated. It is not a decision from the OCIJ.

I understand this is not very interesting for the victims; For them the results are the most important. It is not in our power to decide which crime to investigate. You have to understand why the Co-Prosecutors made this choice. It would be impossible to prosecute all the crimes committed during the Democratic Kampuchea period. That would take 40 years. We have to select crimes to draw a comprehensive global picture.

Four years ago, the Co-Prosecutors did not know the results of the investigation and did their best at that time. It is impossible to prosecute everything, and it’s necessary to select some facts.

First, there has not been a change of rules in the middle of the game. It is absurd to imagine that it is possible for people to participate as a CP for a crime they have not been a victim of. Internal Rule have been modified at the last Plenary, but not in their content, only in the wording. Rule 23 and Rule 23b have the same content.

We have been criticized because we released lately the scope of investigation (in November 2009) and it is true that it was late. You have to understand our constraints: we have to combine information from the public and preserve the efficiency of the investigation. We cannot jeopardize the whole process for public information. Investigation is a confidential process. We are also aware that this is a very important trial for the public.

About the meaning of the CP admissibility and inadmissibility decision, it is impossible to envisage any form of individual financial compensation as it is just unrealistic. We decided it would be possible only to ask for collective and moral reparation at the beginning, so inadmissible victims will not be penalized.

Victims who applied as CP will be recognized as victims in any case, even if they’re not admissible. It will be kept as a testimony; and judges will be able to hear that and use it. For example, lawyers will have in mind the situation of all people and be able to address their problems in the pleading. The fact they are not a CP does not mean they are not victims or that there will not be a way to talk about them.

How many CP will be admissible at the end? Nobody can answer. We are in the process of analyzing the applications. A decision will be made in a few months. Current situation: end February, total 4004 CP applications and 4139 complaints =8200 applications in total. Out of these CP applications, 2154 have been transmitted to the OCIJ, the others will be received by the end of April, as well as any further relevant information in CP applications which still miss some important details. Then we will decide on admissibility. It will be possible to make an appeal for the decision before the pre-trial chamber. It is a huge amount of work, time-consuming and complex. We recruited 4 additional junior lawyers to face this new challenge. This is a new situation as we decided in Sept 2009 that applications could not be assessed at the trial chamber. All admissibility issues will have to be examined at the pre-trial stage, by co-investigating judges and victims unit.

There has been misunderstanding of the letter sent to the CP applicants, explaining that their application is subject to decision about admissibility: it is not a decision on admissibility. This is why we do not send this letter anymore.

We have been criticized for not doing enough or nothing for case 003: we cannot be at the same time criticized to be too slow in case 002 and doing nothing for case 003. It is impossible to do both at the same time. We are human beings and our resources are used in case 002. We are aware people have been waiting 30 years for this trial. We will start investigating case 003 as soon as we are finished with case 002.

We are doing our best to face a very difficult time. We have been here 4 years already. Sometimes it is difficult but I never regret being here, as this trial is very important for Cambodia.

–          Civil Party Applicant representative from Chouk district, Kampot province: For the past 30 years, cranes and bones have flowed across the territory. We have the evidence, but we cannot prosecute those people, as they are too old. As a representative, I want to know why it takes so long, and why there are no financial reparation.

–          Former prisoner in Siem Reap province: I have waited for justice for many years. Why is KRT established for 3 years already and there is still no judgment? Do you intentionally want to postpone the judgment? There is plenty of evidence, we have been waiting for many years. I may die without seeing the justice done. Please hurry and do not delay any further. We wait from one month to another, etc. The accused are getting older and older and may die. As a victim, I want to see justice for the killing and the suffering.

I am not surprised by your questions. We are aware of our duty and responsibility. With lawyers, you would understand. The defense will not agree with you. With the defense contesting what you say, your evidence is weak. Look at Ceaucescu’s trial: trialed for one hour and executed. That is just a mob trial. We want to organize the trial properly, according to international standards. It is not that simple to investigate such complex case. We have to clarify the responsibility for thousands of crimes. It is a huge amount of work, even more complex with 3 languages, people coming from different countries with different legal ackground. That makes things slow and complex. How can it be faster?

As for financial reparation, there are millions of victims and crimes. How do we envisage some form of financial reparation? If the accused are convicted and sentenced, even if they were rich – and they say they are not, they could not compensate for the sufferings. The next plenary will address these issues. CP representatives should give inputs on the question. But forget the idea of any form of finance reparation.

About the delay of the verdict, I cannot be responsible for office of co-prosecutors: I know they’re working on it. A decision will be issued soon. But I cannot comment any further. The accused, victims and even judges could die tomorrow, I know, but we are working hard and we are just human beings.

I am honored to participate in this Seminar, it’s an opportunity to meet with CP representatives. Some I know already, but most of you don’t know me. I’m honored to provide support to the victims before the Court. I would like to comment on what Marcel Lemonde said.

We’ve received 8000 application, 51% are normal complaints, and 49% are application as CP. ECCC in case 001 – Duch, former director of S21- 91 of CP has been admitted. In case 002, 3996 Civil Parties applications have been received. Co-investigating judges are reviewing the applications. In case 001, we received 91 CP and all had representatives and lawyers. In case 002, we have four groups with representatives and lawyers, and associations for victims. We encourage these associations to engage counsels.

Up to now, the Victim Unite has received 1283 power of attorney, i.e 32% of the applications, which means the Civil Party have already a lawyer. 68% have no lawyer and we have to find counsels. This is the last update.

I would like to talk about the information forms, more than 8000 forms were received. 48% were received through intermediary organizations. We have to recognize their efforts,  ADHOC provided 23% of those forms. They collaborate with the court and maintain contact with victims and CP applicants.

I also thank other organizations, as the Tribunal would not be successful without partner organizations. We need to continue to work on these issues. I am personally happy to meet with the representatives. Thanks to ADHOC to select those 160 representatives. We have to cooperate with those networks to maintain the contact with victims and CP. The tribunal lacks funding now. We want to cooperate further with NGOs, particularly ADHOC. Please do keep in touch with the Tribunal; we need to cooperate to answer questions and to provide assistance.

I am representing a German institution that works with other local organizations to support the victims and their participation in ECCC proceedings.

Civil Party (CP) mechanism is a very high priority. First, we want to see survivors feel satisfaction and that justice has been done. It would not repair all the damages but help reconcile them. Second, with a CP mechanism, participation of victims could be a good example for ordinary courts in Cambodia. CP is a very special position in a proceedings, it enjoys a lot of rights. Therefore, our goal should be translated for CP to do the best possible use of their rights. CP at each stage should get proper information about the trial, from lawyers, intermediary organizations, institutions of the court, about what they want to achieve. One right of CP is to ask for additional investigation, to ask questions to the accused. Lawyers must listen and do their best to enact those rights.

It’s important that CP can speak in the proceeding through their lawyers but also with their own voice. In case 001, we hardly achieved this goal. Civil Parties received very careful information because only 90 were there. Lawyers had more time for each. 22 Civil Parties spoke in the Courtroom and some made strong presentation. Some lawyers did a great job to encourage their clients to attend and to talk. Psychological counselors from TPO did a great job to support Civil Party during the proceedings and they supported the creation of victims’ association. We have now two associations of former KR victims. There were many failures. Especially, in case 001, the Civil Parties were grouped by organizations and lawyers. One of the survivors didn’t understand these groups: “ We should be only one group as we are all victims of S21 ”. In case 002, there will be only one group.

It’s the will of the Court, afraid of the big number of CP, with different wishes and needs. They wanted to make it easier with only one group. Civil Parties want the trial be done as soon as possible, so it is a good reason for only one consolidating group. There are different kinds of victims: widows, orphans, ethnic minorities – Cham, Vietnamese, Khmer Krom, victims of gender-based violence; they are all in the same group. That would make one single voice for reparation. You all have something in common, you are all victims of the Khmer Rouge regime, and you have the opportunity to support each other. Some might call it genocide for all victims.

At the end, all Civil Parties can play an active role in helping each other for the coming 2 or 3 years, through regional groups and sub-groups, to attend the trial in the gallery or in the Courtroom. You have to show solidarity, beyond administrative or legal matters.

Thanks for your efforts despite your sufferings.

I like to talk about my observation to the participation of Civil Parties in the Court proceeding: Civil Parties in Case 001, did not disturb or make obstruct the Court proceedings. In contrast, Civil Parties assist to the Court proceedings. They have the opportunity to ask directly question the accused, they can give interviews in the media and they generally help the proceeding to be meaningful. They can ask where the bodies of their parents are. It’s a kind of relief for Civil Parties.

In case 002, there are more than 3900 applicants so the judges are worried because they want to speed up the process and don’t want the accused to die before. The mandate of the Court is to issue a verdict.

In September 2009, as regards to the number of Civil Parties and the age of the accused, the Plenary Sessions’ proposed amendments to the Internal rules: the decision on admissibility is now done during the judicial investigation. Another amendment was made: before, to be admitted as a CP, the applicants must show they suffered physically or psychologically; now, the harms must be direct.

We (ECCC) using the Civil Law system so investigation is confidential. The Judges are not so happy to disseminate information. But, I believe that with wider information, there would be more applicants. If they can provide better information, Civil Society would not have to go to 23 provinces to collect applications. They have not only responsibility by law but also moral responsibility towards the victims. There must be a mechanism: judges should have moral obligation when refusing applications. They require the victims to consolidate by associating. NGOs have been pushing the tribunal for collaboration.But, how to organize the group? There are so many possible ways of forming the group. We have to think of the implications (moral reparation).

Civil Parties applications could be used as hostages, the Court should select lawyers, but so far, the process is not yet finished. Only 32% of Civil Parties have lawyers. What about the others? The tribunal must select lawyers to represent the Civil Parties, but there is no sign that the administration office is making efforts to select lawyers. Another issue: the contact between Tribunal and Civil Party. Communication is still a challenge.

Intermediary organizations are running short of funds. This problem must be resolved.

With 160 CP applicants, how to move forward? The balance between confidentiality of the proceeding and the security of victims. We need to find ways to resolve this problem. Another task for CP: how do we conduct outreach programs? How can we publicize the information to victims and CP to understand their rights? Some CP were not satisfied in case 001, as they didn’t know the questions would attack or challenge them, but this is a normal process. We need a proper mechanism for an effective participation of CP.

I have honored to represent NGOs in this seminar. We assisted with applications of Civil Parties and victims of Khmer Rouge regime to participate or lodge complaints. The participation of victims in general is inestimable in the process of the ECCC. We came across the sufferings of the regime, an invaluable experience for today and for history. Your voice could be heard by young generations.

Many members of the CHRAC organizations promote the participation of victims (ADHOC, KID, Khmer Kampuchea Krom for HR, Center for Reconciliation and Social Development), from the early stage, before the establishment of the ECCC. They disseminated information through outreach activities to promote an understanding of the ECCC, they collected complaints and forwarded them to the tribunal. They contributed a lot to the collection of complaints.

As regards to statistics of collection of information forms, more than 50% of Civil Parties were received through intermediary organizations. They are very active and have wide networks around the country. For example, ADHOC has branches in every provinces. ADHOC alone has collected more than 1800 Civil Parties applicants. CHRAC promote human rights and defend human rights abuses in Cambodia. We participated not only to promote victim’s participation but also to promote a dialogue amongst the victims, through workshops and speakers. It’s a platform for the victims to analyze participation and share their ideas, to discuss. This is a special opportunity of the victims as they are been considered a party in the proceedings and can demand the exercise of their rights.

We also maintained good collaboration with international organizations, such as International Legal team, led by the French lawyers. Reparations emerged from that collaboration. 32% of Civil Parties have councils, but not the majority. It is a burden for NGOs and Victims Unit to find a way to ensure the lack of counsel doesn’t obstruct the proceedings. It’s also the responsibility of the Court. In a short time, there will be issuance of the closing order so we should ensure to find counsels for Civil Party. We have received information from co-investing judges, but the completion of necessary information from victims in different provinces is the task we need to undertake. However, it’s not easy and we need help from the court as we run out of funds. We have to consider our strategy with the Victims Unit and national and international organizations to find a way out. We can assist only with a part of the issues. We have organized three seminars so far. As for reparation, whether it will be collective or moral is not clear.

We have to work together in consultation with the tribunal.

–          Mr. CHUM Mey, One of the S21 survivor victims: I have filed a Civil Party applications in Case 001. About the form of reparation such as a schools, hospitals, road constructions – but what if the hospital is constructed but we don’t have enough medical staff, who will offer support? I am sorry the Court didn’t think of individual reparations. I understand it’s not possible. I lost a flat and a cart but who witnessed that? My suggestion is that there should be individual reparation, no matter how much it is – only a small amount for individuals.

–          Civil party applicant from Kampong Chhnang province: I live in Kampong Chhnang province, I’m a former prisoner in Pol Pot regime in skull region, imprisoned in Pursat province, region 7. My hands could not move at that time as they used bamboo stick and electrical equipment to beat me. I was accused of being a captain in the army but I was simply a student. I lost 70 members of my family. In region 7, new and old people were executed. There were a lot of mass graves. Regarding the delay of Khmer Rouge Tribunal: how long to issue a verdict? Until I die or until the accused die? The Court should provide some forms of individual reparations for charitable work.

When we are victims, we want reparation. But we need to be honest: individual reparation is not an issue anymore. There are only two forms of reparation: collective and moral. You can withdraw your participation if you think it’s useless. The Court is still considering what is a collective or moral reparation. The most important is that it can relieve the sufferings of the victims. The judges must consider what is appropriate for the victims, and listen to them. Out of 4000 CP, some would receive individual reparation and some wouldn’t? It would be unfair to others. Reparation should answer the needs of the community. I support the idea of TS: reparation must be meaningful for the community.

  

I cannot add anything further. Now the judges are considering this issue. I am willing to listen to suggestions to forward them to judges. At Victim Unite, I have no power to decide but I can forward your suggestions. Last week, two experts came through CHRAC, to consider moral reparations with partner NGOs, Victim Unite and Victim’s associations. We will forward our recommendations to the judges. There won’t be any individual reparation, only collective reparation that should be meaningful for Cambodia as a whole. We have to find jurisprudence and convey what we think to the judges for a meaningful proceeding of the tribunal. It’s not only about reparation (ex: building schools) but also a criminal sentence.

–          Mr. CHUM Mey, One of the S21 survivor victims: collective reparation is also a moral reparation, as a school for ex. What’s the difference? the opportunity to participate in the trial could also be a form of reparation?

In Germany, Hitler regime, most serious crimes like genocide against the Jews 60 years ago. That’s why Germany supports ECCC and CP participation. My father lost 40 members of his family. It was important for him that the State of Germany takes responsibility of what happened. I’m not talking of guilt but of Jewish people and other victims trust in mankind. Not all got reparation (only citizens). It was a small amount of money, symbolic. The most important is that State and society take their resp. Cambodia has already taken part of this resp by having ECCC taking place. For reparations, it’s always a question. There are other resp towards the young generation (more than 60%) who need schools. This may be a kind of reparation outside of the Court. But I hope we can see in the field of reparation a bit more resp taken by the State and not all resp put on the accused. You expect recognition by the Court but maybe beyond as well.

I would like to welcome the participants. I would like to orient the discussion of this seminar and would like to encourage the participants not to deviate too much from the main topic, especially the role of Civil Party in their communication with Civil Party lawyers and Victim Unite. We are going to discuss about the issue of the admissibility of Civil Party applications, and the role of those who have been admitted. We have national and international lawyers to discuss the status of application as Civil Party. What is about those who have no lawyers? Please do not deviate from the theme of the discussion so we can enjoy a fruitful seminar.

Other issues have already been discussed in previous seminars. ADHOC has organized a selection of representatives. What is the ongoing process of applications? What happen if they are refused? If you were not clear with your role, this seminar would be useless.

   

The lawyers will discuss the participation of CP. We have provided various workshops but we should refocus our decision on participation of CP, especially the issue of information dissemination. I have sad news to share with you: Mr. David Blackman, International Co-Lawyer of CP, has passed away. He supported victims from the USA. I express my condolences to his family. ADHOC will no longer have a network at the district level, so there will be challenges because, so far, these networks have been working actively.

My respect goes to national and international lawyers and representatives of victims. I was assigned to group 8 with my colleague Mr. PICH Ang. Both of us are national lawyers and are engaged in representation of CP. We have received 320 applications from Kandal, Pursat, St Treng, SR, Takeo and Kampong Speu province. We are working hard to achieve the goals of victims and CP. Once we accepted the applications, we joined hands with ADHOC, and I would like to thank them and other NGOs who assisted us in establishing relationships with CP in 4 regions. We have representatives from Kampong Cham, Prey Veng, Battambang and Kampot. What is next? CPs has difficulties contacting their lawyers and prosecutors. Only the lawyers are legal representatives to defend interests before the Court.

Last week I went to the province to meet victims and village representatives to explain the relation between lawyers and representatives. On April 24, investigating judges will close the investigation. Applications must be thoroughly completed. Some of you have no id card or any proof of injuries suffered. Sometimes victims have no more relatives or witnesses to prove injuries. Sometimes you even need to have photos. There is a serious lack of information. As lawyers we don’t want applications to be refused so we make our best efforts to ensure your applications are complete. For those who already have a representation, you should maintain contact with your lawyers. Do not hesitate to call me any time. It is a challenging time now. If you feel your application is not complete, ask us to seek additional information. If it is difficult to contact us, please contact your representatives.

Next week, we’re going to Pursat, Siem Reap, Kampot, Battambang and Kampong Speu to meet with the victims. Be prepared if you want to talk personally with the lawyers. There are more than 2000 applicants without lawyers. We must act urgently to find and engage new lawyers. It’s your sole discretion to decide who to choose on the list. We are willing to defend your interests free of charge. We wait for your selection and work voluntarily for your interests. I myself suffered from the regime, my husband was killed. I hope that I would understand your concerns and try my best to assist you, as I am Cambodian and also a victim of the KR regime.

I thanks to ADHOC for organizing this event and making possible a meeting with CP representatives for the first time. I have some comments to share with you. When we talk about representation, it means the person is a servant: we do everything for you in terms of legal representation. When you leave your province, you bring your information so we can present it to the Court. We also share information with you. I’m a legal representative in case 001 and case 002 and I have been working as a lawyer in CDP since 1994. My work revolves around criminal cases. This case has an international dimension and involves very complicated facts. That’s why it takes such a long time. Please ask any question you have. I’m representative of CP and I have had CP in Kampong Speu, Stung Treng and conducted outreach programs. I have clients in Takeo and even in France.

In case 002, Mr. Lemonde is not the one who decided on the investigation scope, it’s the ECCC as a whole. The scope is broad, spread over the country. It’s virtually impossible to conduct investigation on all the cases. Nuon Chea’s Pre trial detention will expire by September. The time is pressing now and we need to move forward. Millions of pages have to be translated in 3 languages. We have only received support from DED. Investigation may not extend to fully cover every crime. Look at the booklet and the crimes that fall under the jurisdiction of the tribunal. If the pre detention expires, the accused will be released. So we have to act fast. Being representatives is not only one time, you can participate in the gallery or in the Courtroom (10 seats will be available for representatives). You can observe justice being done for you in the Tribunal. It’s a healing process, with some collective reparation. You are not the only one, there are many victims and survivors. You can participate, but without individual reparation. You have to convey this information to your fellows. You have to share the reality of the Court and the challenges we are facing. The court will decide who is the legitimate of the team. The Court will examine case by case and decide what suffering you have endured. There will be plenty of time to discuss together, but you need to know how you can raise your voice.

Since February 2008, I am representative of Civil Party in case 001. I would like to focus on your role as representative of civil parties applicants. Your role is to perform CP in your communes rights. We conducted training and we will continue to ensure that you are aware of CP rights. You will be the focal point to deliver and exchange information between lawyers, ADHOC and CP. You will have the task to update the CP in the field, as we are not able to contact with everybody. Having information is a very important prerequisite to perform rights, but CP must be aware of how to get involved in the proceedings. It’s a huge challenge for you and we can benefit from our experience in case 001 where we had regular CP meetings to teach and to work in small groups to determine what justice means to you. We have the task to bring justice to the victims, but I need more info on what that it means to you: is the conviction enough? To help empower CP to bring their views to the Court. we hope to be able to train you in 2010 so you have necessary skills to continue CP meetings in the communes. We have a deadline of April 29 to submit additional information for application forms.

A complete form – what does it mean? If a CP applied saying he was detained in security center A, but it cannot be found in the booklet, then the application will be rejected. Your task is to ask this victim: do you have additional information? Were you detained in another center? Were you victim of one of the 3 purges? One new crime is part of the investigation: forced marriage, which was before not perceived as a crime by the ECCC. Forced marriages were widespread and systematic and many of you didn’t mention it as you didn’t know it was a crime. You should ask the victims if they were forced to marry or their brother/sister and if they suffered of this fact of a family member being forcibly married. Then application forms would become complete. This crime remains regardless if people are still together and did not separate or divorce. That does not change the fact that this is a crime. Your important task will be to go back to the victims to check if their story matches the scope of investigation. If not, they should add information. If you have any doubt, you can call ADHOC. After April 29, the judges will issue an order and reject CP applicants, then we can appeal. But we have only 10 days, a very short time to contact all of you. We recommend to you, as representatives, to go back to those you represent, and ask them what to do in case of rejection: do you want to appeal or not? That way, it’s easier for us to have a list of people who would like to appeal. We hope we can continue to train you on how to decide to appeal or not.

It’s also important to prepare information. As Judge Lemonde said, co-investigating judges granted one additional month to send information to the Court. We will too request one month more. You are not only representatives of ADHOC clients, you take as well the duty to become representatives of the region you are coming from, regardless the CP applied through ADHOC or not. This is another challenge: you are volunteering, it is a huge task and you need assistance from the Court.

I thank ADHOC for this opportunity to meet all of you. I’m from ASF. We work with two Cambodian lawyers named Mr. KIM Mengkhy and Ms. MUCH Sovannary. We are many French lawyers working in this team, coming to Cambodia for one month and going back to France. We’re working hard with Cambodian lawyers. We were involved in case 001, and now we work in any provinces (Kampong Thom, Kep, Phnom Penh, Preah Vihear, …). We even have French CP in France.

All the speakers have explained the difficulties that we will have to face in the next months. They have explained your role in preparing the applications. The lawyers are here with your and we will visit the provinces to contact the people who have filled CP applications. It is important to stay in contact for the next deadlines. National and international lawyers are working together to prepare this trial and for the voice of CP and victims to be heard.

I come here to work with Mr. LOR Chunthy in our team with LAC association. Our role is to represent you and to speak for you, to explain your story, and to be sure each of your personal story is understood by the Court and the judges. We represent religious persons, Cham minority, people from Kampong Thom and Sihanoukville. We cannot do it without your help. To do our job correctly, we have to read all the documents and cases of the Court. We recruited 3 legal assistants to help us. But the most important is to listen to you, to report to the Court to explain your trauma, your story and your goals. We have to be realistic. We have to inform you about the law. If you ask me for personal reparation, my duty is to inform you that the law does not allow this request. If you ask me why the process takes such a long time, I have to tell you that co-prosecutors and investigating judges have to read all documents and evidences. My job is to inform you and not to always say yes to what you ask. We have to be realistic.

At the end of September, the 4 accused could be released. We can ask more to the judges, but that would postpone the trial. It is my job to inform you. You have to inform everybody in your group about this. We try to represent each of you, individually. We listen to your personal stories to report them to the Court. You will be personally recognized as a victim, even not a CP. If you are not recognized as CP, you will be recognized as complainants. In close collaboration with VU, we will represent all of you and ensure your applications are received by the Court. That’s why we need you to communicate with all the persons in your groups and stay in contact with VU when you need more information. To be honest, we are not here to promise something that we know is not possible.

Mr. Lor Chunthy: During the round table he has rose up the question that in case of refusal of CP applications, I’d like to know who is responsible to coordinate this task?

Mr. NEOU Kassie response: I am a Coordinator for Victim Unite and victims relationships. My task is not only coordination work with CP but with the victims as a whole (14 millions). We received many thousands of applications, and a lot of them are criminal complaints.

In case of refusal, the applicants remain complainants and are considered as victims. We’re not going to ignore anyone. ADHOC has already built the bridge for us. Unfortunately, we’re going out of gasoline. ADHOC has accomplished so many things, their legacy is good, they have selected 160 representatives. It’s not only for ADHOC and NGOs but also the VU. Next month, the whole vehicle of the court is running out of gasoline. We are all facing the same challenges, but we won’t give up. We should recognize other forms of networks: KID and association of Khmer Krom. I’d like to encourage collaboration between these intermediary organizations. I’m glad to see the lawyers working together.

In the future, there will be 2 or 3 daily meetings in the communities and we’ll bring the lawyers to meet their clients. About those who are not accepted or have no lawyers: there should be some kind of gathering for them as well because they are also victims. That includes outreach programs, such as mass media or gatherings in small communities. There are many other projects. Today is the start of a future collaboration, for CP to work with their lawyers, for complainants and for victims.

–          I have a suggestion: some victims do not have enough ability or knowledge – how can they file a complaint? I feel sorry that only a small % of CP have counsels and appeal lawyers to work with victims who have limited knowledge. I have been detained in several places. Even if the accused were convicted, I would not be satisfied. Please assist the victims, as I have been working in HR sector and we don’t have sufficient counsel. (Representative from Takeo)

–          As a representative of victims: I do not know which case is useful and which case is not. How and what kind of application is meaningful or complete. (Civil Party Applicant, Kampot).

After listening to the question, Mr. LONG Panhavuth, he response by asking back to CPA with comments during the meeting that I have a question: The Court has been reluctant to provide information to the public. They have not provided any lead co-lawyers. Please complain to the Court to move faster. I cannot share this information with my fellows. I ask the lawyers to speak to the Court to release all information.

–          I am representative from Kampong Cham province. If the co-prosecutors or judges disagree with applications, whose decision is subject to appeal?

According to Mr. NEOU Kassie, if the CP applicants are not recognized, the Court will not ignore any one.

–          Civil Party Applicant from Kampot province. I would like to ask for clarification: if more than 4000 have applied and are not recognized, what shall we do?

–          Civil Party Applicant from Kratie province. With regard to the comments made by Mr. NEOU Kassie, he said that ADHOC building the bridge for the victims. ADHOC will cut their network and we are very sorry because ADHOC taught us how to work but we cannot stand on our feet, by ourselves. Can ADHOC continue to provide assistance until we’re skilled enough to stand on our own feet?

The representatives will convey the words of the victims to the Court and the lawyer. Representatives have more means than ordinary CP. For indigenous people, for example it is impossible to provide financial support for travel. We already receive little pay from DED. Victims in general have to wait from their representatives’ information. There is no financial assistance.

What is incomplete? and what is complete? It is possible to get provisional information on applications which are possibly incomplete, and some assistance from ADHOC provincial staff to collect additional information to make it complete. For example, additional information to the Victim Form with crime on forced marriage.

For long time ago, we discussion between lawyer, staff of ECCC and the representative of civil party and show about the leading of lawyer, we don’t know when selected.We are lawyers, so we try to find solutions and a better way for next time. The most important thing is the communication between the ECCC and the CP.

We can’t suppose who is recognize or who is reject because review all what happened and scope of investigate but the victims can be in scope of investigate without write in the complain so all of them must be need add information that will be closed in 29 April 2010. For about the testify in ECCC need to show about what happened in?

Ms. Silke Studzinky add comments:

One more, for about the additional information have to put to ECCC involve including a force married thus civil party can be put.

Understanding of trauma for the victims in Khmer Rough regime. Especially how to make the victims get better . Travail is interesting for all because it is a live life. It make the person with afraid and when remember in the past. TPO can help about the trauma.TPO live with all of you.

–          Question from  Svay Rieng civil party: Two victims suffer from trauma because of what happened during the Khmer Rough regime.  How is the TPO Service?

Mr. Sothara response: There are two options: one is with medicine and the other without.

   

Mr. Chum Mey also sharing the experience as civil party in case 001 that show to get the our right and their responsibility in 3 years 8 months 20 days. ADHOC made me join in ECCC and TPO helped when I’m afraid. I told to other people to complain application in ADHOC. Than, he also inform the victim association found after member know each other during the meeting and facilitation by ADHOC.

–          Why Mr. Duch in case 001 come in to case 002? How is the condition to be a member of KSEAM SKAN?

Mr. Chum Mey response that Duch is related Mr. Noun Chea who is second man position during the Pol Pot regims (Pol Pot is first man). Mr. Mey has blame to Duch by said that why did he destroy all documents?

–           Why Mr Chum Mey was in prison?

Mr. Chum Mey response, I either don’t know too. In year 1975, I was a machinist and I have taught 25 persons already, they told me that I had to repaired machine in Viet Nam; but in fact they took me into the prison by accused with agency of CEA and KGB.

Moreover, Related to the condition of Ksem Ksan Association is require the member to pay  4000 Riel per month for membership.

–          One participants from Svay Rieng province: If ECCC is reject me to be civil party, how can do? I need short course of capacity training for better understanding some reasons of rejection by ECCC.

Dr. Helen’s response: I recognize, some civil parties don’t have clear of document and representative must think about them. All complaints must keep as background of Cambodia.

–          Question from Civil Party Applicant from Pursat province: If the additional information completed already, but accuse persons have to release, so how to do?

Mr. Hong Kimsoun response: Relating to reason of additional information was present by Civil Party lawyer already. and than, ECCC still disadmitt the CPA we have right to appeal and we will try all our best for civil party benefits. However, we don’t hopeless in this task.

On behalf of the Cambodian Human Rights and Development Association (ADHOC) I would like to express my appreciation and thank you for all especially to Dr. Helen Jarvis, Civil Parties Co-Lawyers, and all 160 civil parties applicants representatives. As I have promised during the regional meeting we ADHOC will support to provide the opportunity for meeting and discussion with the Judges, ECCC senior staffs, Co-Lawyers and NGOs partners.

I have observed in general during this meeting, you, the CPA have raised all the concerns and questions to key speakers. Moreover, all of you are clearly aware of the important role as representative of civil parties in your target province and future work with your Co-Lawyers. Personally, my appreciation is to continue work with you, although my project is in the final stages. I will try with all my capacity to support you all.

Finally, I don’t want to continue for long during this closing because we have been already stayed here for a whole day. Again, I would like to thank the victims who want justice by joining as civil party. Your energy, business time and family time for social justice is small amount of people if we compare to the number of victims during the KR regime, 1.7 million in total. Therefore, your role as representatives to those victims especially civil parties applicants who elected you in regional meeting. Moreover, please continue to spend you energy and time for justice in the ECCC court proceeding.

I wish all best of you all, and come back home with safety and happiness in family.